Joined Sep 10, 2004 Messages 2 . Neither is better. Leave 1/4 inch between stud and bottom. Bush Performance Engines brings back the Clevor engine which mates the large intake ports of the 351 Cleveland heads to the 289/302/351W blocks, brought to you by Mustang & Fords Magazine. . The intake ports flow 382 cfm at .750-inch of lift. The Windsor engines became the backbone of Ford's V8 lineup in the 1970s when other Ford V8 engines were discontinued. It just was rushed out to meet the Trans-Am needs early. The "335" designation reflected Ford management's decision to produce an engine of that size (335 cubic inches) with room for expansion during its development. porknbeaner, Mar 18, 2015 SHARE POST #3 Crazy Steve Member from Beautiful outer Yelm WA by a large margin. You can spot the difference pretty easily by looking at the front of the engine. These Ford V8 engines are lighter and narrower than the Chevy V8 engines, however they are about 1.5" longer than the Chevy V8. You can tell the difference from the outside by looking at the valve cover. They also built the 400 c.i.d. Engine - Bore - Stroke - Deck 302w - 4" - 3" - 8.206" 351w - 4" - 3.5" - 9.503" 302c - 4" - 3" - 9.213" 302c - 4" - 3.5" - 9.213" Rick. Lack of information on Ford 351 engine differences. In fact, Ford is still running Cleveland heads in NASCAR. Interestingly, the 351C four-barrel's rated torque . This is like the old debate " Chocolate VS Vanilla ". taller to allow for a longer Stroke . 00 Lincoln Electric AC/DC Arc Welder. 157 and 164 tooth are the 2 versions of flywheels and each flywheel requires a specific bellhousing. For use with Lincoln Electric's Weld-Pak 100HD, Weld-Pak 3200HD, SP-135T, SP-175T and others. Daniel Duvald. if your limiting yourself to such small cubes then go Windsor, smaller lighter and cheaper for parts, the Cleveland is still a full size block compared to the Windsor. Answer (1 of 11): Though both the 351 small blocks had 4.380" bore centers, the same 4.000" bore x 3.500" stroke, and 0.875" lifters, the engines are quite distinct from one another. The 351C was replaced by the 351M in 1975. The 400 was used in many applications over the years. Cleveland Tech. engine, starting in 1971. A: To the eternal bane of automotive parts people everywhere, Ford has made not one, but three 351 cubic inch engines: the Cleveland, the Windsor (Ontario), and the Modified. The shape of the valve covers is a quick way, the Cleveland covers are "square" at the ends, the Windsor is tapered. Visual Difference. Unfortunately, Ford developed the Cleveland right when the Muscle Car Era was fading due to emissions regulations tightening and insurance rates rising. The first version was only 221 CID, but the soon-to-follow 289 and 302 put the engine on the map. B blueoval boosted sleeper Take a 351 windsor block, drill a new water hole in the head, and stick a freeze plug in the old one, and the heads bolt right on. the 350 WINS . The Cleveland's connecting rods were shorter than the Windsor's, too, at 5.78 inches versus 5.96 inches--short rods equal better acceleration. taller to allow for a longer Stroke . I understand the M code is the 4V and H code is the 2V 351W in 1969. Ford built the 351C engine between 1969-74. The Ford Windsor plant is located in Windsor, Ontario and produced the 4.6L motors for Mustangs from 1999-2001.The Windsor engine can be distinguished from Romeo blocks by looking for a "W" stamp on the block. Windsor engine characteristics. Cylinder heads . All of the Ford drag racers and NASCAR teams ran the Cleveland, not a Windsor in sight. The 351 HO is just a Windsor engine with higher performance parts. However, other than the intake are there othere diferences? The Ford 302 (5.0 liter) small block is in the same family as the 351, and it can often be hard to distinguish the two. Fun Fact. The 351W (Windsor) valve covers are attached with 6 bolts, straight front to rear, and narrow in width (similar to the 302 c.i. This engine family began production in late 1969 with a 351 cu . Windsor will scream like an 18 year old girl. but if you can fit a Cleveland then go a 351c. 351Cleveland . The 351W is an expanded version of the 90° V8 series of engines that include the 221, 260, 289, and 302. In 1970, just one year after introducing the 351 Windsor, Ford introduced the 351 Cleveland—an entirely different engine from the Windsor, but also displacing 351 cubic inches. Chevy 454 Vs. Ford 460 Throwdown - Horsepower S13, E13 Building the Lightning 351 - Start to Finish . since the production of the 351 Windsor was not sufficient. This is where the crank gear locates. FORUMS; FORUM GUIDELINES . The pointer is also showing the band that is .005″ larger. Us Ford guys have a half dozen Windsor displacements, all the 385-series "big-blocks," 10 or so FE engines and a few 335-series Cleveland "small-blocks" to keep straight. The Cleveland (351C) has the small 300/302/351W bell housing pattern. Same block as 400, but crank is back to 3.50" stroke. Cleveland vs Windsor. Known as the 351 Windsor—for Ford's Windsor, Ontario, engine plant—it was . Use engine oil sparingly on stud threads; however, never fi ll the bolt hole with oil, which can crack the block. The second—Windsor, or 'W'—referred to the Ontario . On a 302 (or smaller c.i.d.) The best 302 is the windsor as i was made to be a 302. • High strength aluminum block, 356-T6 grade aluminum. The Ford 335 engine family was a group of engines built by the Ford Motor Company between 1969 and 1982. While the four-barrel Cleveland heads certainly out-flowed their 351 Windsor counterparts, modifications were necessary to perform the Cleveland-Windsor head swap. For example, there are at least three common 351 ci engine variants to know — the 351 Windsor, 351 Cleveland and 351 Modified. 351 Windsor vs 302. Ford 351 Cleveland vs. 351/400 Modified. LS vs. Windsor History Ford debuted the 351 Windsor in the 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 with both two-barrel and four-barrel carburetor configurations. but if you can fit a Cleveland then go a 351c. The answer was to increase the stroke and bump displacement by nearly 50 cubes, giving the 351 the first part of its name. Doug is still impressed with the performance of the Cleveland- and Windsor-based engines, but . This ^^^ is exactly what I would have told you. Ford took the 400 engine's tall-deck block and de-stroked it with a shorter 3.5 in (89 mm) stroke crankshaft . In 1975 Ford took this 400 engine and de-stroked it while shortening the crankshaft stroke to make a 5.8L . The 351M was essentially a destroked version of the 400 c.i.d . I would use Cleveland The 400 replaced the Ford 390, and it was designed for good acceleration for medium to heavy vehicles. The low-deck Cleveland block was more compact than the 351 Windsor, and the Boss used four-bolt main caps, as well as forged, shot-peened and magnafluxed connecting rods with 3/8 rod bolts. The Ford 351 Cleveland engine was introduced in 1970 as a response to the Chevrolet 350 V8 engine. The bottom crankshaft is a Cleveland, notice the spacer in front of the main journal. As for differences the Cleveland amd Windsor had a SB bellhousing bolt pattern while the 351M had a 429-460 pattern. The cleveland was made to be a 351. Automatique. I would like to know how the 290 period Hp compares to a GT-40 (Cobra or Exploder) production engine's output. Thread starter bsnake; Start date Sep 10, 2004; Sep 10, 2004 #2 B. bsnake New member. ALL Clevelands (except the 400) have the same block dimensions, that's why a 302 Cleveland is MUCH bigger than a 302 Windsor, and is the same size as the 351 Cleveland. What are the pros and cons of stroking a Windsor vs. a Cleveland? The Ford 400 engine was based on the 351 Cleveland. . The 351 . The Windsor is a small block, basically an enlarged 289. The 351 M-code is not to be mistaken with the 351M engine. History. Ford Windsor V8. Windsor vs Cleveland Page 5 of 5 [ 64 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 . engine, starting in 1971. . Cleveland vs. Windsor Crankshaft The bottom crankshaft is a Cleveland, notice the spacer in front of the main journal. Ford Mustang 1970 351 Cleveland . History. Before the avalanche of Windsor heads, if you really wanted to go fast with a Windsor Ford, you performed the necessary modifications to install a set of 351 Cleveland heads on it. The Ford small-block (aka Windsor V8) is a series of 90° overhead valve small block V8 automobile engines built by the Ford Motor Company from July 1961 to 2002.. Watch the full episode right now on MotorTrend! • 4-bolt, steel billet main caps, splayed on 2,3 and 4. if your limiting yourself to such small cubes then go Windsor, smaller lighter and cheaper for parts, the Cleveland is still a full size block compared to the Windsor. From 1969 until 1982, Ford produced a 5.8L, 351 cubic inch V8 called the 351 Cleveland. 351 Windsor vs. 351 Cleveland. Ford Windsor crankshaft location of the crank gear is about .005″ smaller than the Cleveland. Before a 351C block can be line-honed, torque the main studs. These en. Other than minor cylinder head updates over its 18 years of service in NASCAR, the basic Windsor block configuration has remained unchanged. The 351 Cleveland develops more power in stock form, but the Windsor can be built to make just as much power. Timing Chain. The Ford Windsor Small Block Engine Family > Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland. Small Block Ford V8 engines popularly include the 260, 289, 302, and 351 cubic inch engines. Up top, are a set of Ford Motorsports C302 cylinder heads, which have been worked over by Roush-Yates Racing. Localisation du. so if you use the same heads on both motors what is the. Pistons have thicker compression height to maintain compression a 8.2:1 in the tall deck. • 3.99″ bore as delivered, cast iron sleeves capable of 4.125". Timing covers for the Windsor is a cast aluminum piece while the Cleveland and M have a stamped steel piece. Windsors have a wet intake while Cleveland and M have a dry intakes. After consulting parts catalogs, repair manuals, and my colleagues on the Internet, I've learned the following: The Windsor (351W) was introduced in 1969 and stayed in use . Cleveland vs. Windsor Crankshaft. TECHNICAL DOCUMENTS; DYNO REGISTRY; QUARTER MILE REGISTRY; SEARCH; CONTACT; LOGIN; Home » Forums » Fordmods Tech » V8 Workshop. Engine Differences: The most obvious external difference is the engine valve covers. which limits the size of the valves and the flow of the cylinder heads. In 1991, Ford switched from the Cleveland-based small-block V-8 to the venerable 351 "Windsor" engine. Apply moly coat to provide lubrication and an accurate torque reading. The 351 blocks were as much as 1.300 in. This extra length presents a problem when doing a conversion on the Pre-1972, 80" or 81" wheelbase Jeeps. blocks, the distributor mount is almost flush with the top of the block . The Cleveland engine was designed and built from the ground up as a racing engine. The 351 blocks were as much as 1.300 in. The 400 is basically a stroked 351 - it had the longest stroke in pushrod engines at the time. Annonce Ford Mustang 1970 351 Cleveland Le Havre Informations générales. I have been told the block is different such as 4 bolt mains and extra webbing and another was the heads are different. Windsor valve covers use 6-bolt covers, whereas the Cleveland/Modified uses 8-bolt covers. Also the 302 looks kind of tiny compared to a 351C Yep easiest way to tell. Véhicule. Cleveland/Modified engines have the timing chain recessed into the front of the block itself, and its timing cover is essentially just a flat piece of metal. Clevo will pull like an 18 year old boy. They also built the 400 c.i.d. 351 Cleveland on the Dyno! Ford built the 351C engine between 1969-74. Production continues in America until the late 1990s, when it was replaced by the OHC-modular V8 series. ok, a windsor with the same comp, displacement, and the same heads as a cleveland, yes i mean a windsor using cleveland heads. Windsor vs Cleveland - Ford Modifications Website. Énergie. Ford Windsor, Muncie, Cleveland, Which Is Better. B&A Ford has intakes, and you are good to go. READ BEFORE YOU POST !!!! The 351 Cleveland was built to be a performance engine, but they went overboard :tongue: boosted331. 67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose cragar62 Registered Joined Sep 28, 2018 97 Posts Debuting in the 1962 model-year, it's reign lasted until the following century-the last Windsor engine rolled off the line for the 2001 Ford Explorer. You can spot the difference pretty easily by looking at the front of the engine. 9.200" deck height C, 9.48,9.503" on Windsor. Windsor heads can be distinguished by a 13/14 bolt valve . Cleveland's Crown Jewel. Designed as a successor to the Ford Y-block engine, it was first installed in the 1962 model year Ford Fairlane and Mercury Meteor.Originally produced with a displacement of 221 cu in (3.6 L), it eventually increased to 351 cu in (5 . Jan 9, 2007. Clevo will pull like an 18 year old boy. Windsor vs Cleveland - Ford Modifications Website HOME; FORUMS. 351M. The power and torque curves would be different, but the Gt-40's output range could easily be changed with a different roller cam and matching springs. The "Cleveland" and "Modified" engines are all part of the "335 Series" engine family. Visual Difference. Break for 4 minutes. The main difference between the blocks was the Deck Height . Most Windsor engines feature an 8 bolt crankshaft and require 8 bolt flywheels. Share with: Link: Copy link. the only difference i can see would be the intake track and angle of the ports. The quickest way of differentiating between the different familys of Ford engines is to simply count the valve cover bolts. It also became a formidable force in Pro Stock drag racing. At the end of the 1960s Ford was seeking a way to increase the torque produced by its 302 cubic inch V8 without having to spend a lot of money developing a new engine. The Cleveland is a big block, more high performance. Using. 31, as Freiburger, Dulcich and Steve Brule pit the 351 Ford Windsor. . The main difference between the blocks was the Deck Height . Depending on what chamber size you use, cheap flattop pistons can be used, but should be flycut for the cleveland valves. Windsor vs Cleveland - Ford Modifications Website. Horsepower ratings were 250 at 4,600 rpm for the two-barrel, and 300 at 5,400 rpm for the four-barrel, 10 more than the 1969 351W four-barrel. Windsor valve covers use 6-bolt covers, whereas the Cleveland/Modified uses 8-bolt covers. The mains caps on a Windsor are 2 bolt non splayed while the Cleveland had 2 or 4 bolt mains with splayed caps, the M had just 2 bolt splayed caps. 08-25-2003, 12:38 AM. This is where the crank gear locates. The reason the Windsor is king of the aftermarket and not the Cleveland (even though the Cleveland does have a healthy . As for sheer numbers produced . The 351 Cleveland lasted longer than some, giving the 1970-73 Mustang a robust gallop while becoming a semi-legend among Ford buffs. 351 Clevelands were great in their time but the Windsor wins hands down nowdays. ford 351 windsor vs modified-351 Small Block Dyno Shootout: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E11, , OnAllCylinders Podcast — Powered by Summit Racing Boss 302 Cleveland/Windsor small-block hybrid: The Boss 302 engine was a 351 Cleveland cylinder head bolted onto a Windsor short-block, making the first "Clevor" hybrid. The bore and stroke were each 4.0 inches. The cleveland block (351) is smaller than the Windsor block overall. The Windsor engine is a 90-degree small-block V8 from Ford Motor Company.It was introduced in 1962, replacing the old Ford Y-block engine.Though not all of the engines in this family were produced at the Windsor, Ontario engine plant (all Ford small blocks came from Cleveland, Ohio until 1966), the name stuck. The Cleveland had the best flowing heads for a SB Ford before aftermarket heads, thats what made them great motors pre 1990s. What are the major differences between the 351 cleveland and 351 Windsor . . Similar to the Ford 351 Windsor V8, the Cleveland had smaller connecting rods to allow for a more rapid acceleration. Hydraulic Roller Cam, Ford 302 HO, 285/285, 220/220 Ford 302 HO ('85-'94 w/OE Roller Lifters) Can be used in standard '85-'89 302 by using 652396 or equivalent lifters, 31-1000 retro-fit kit and changing firing order to . Named for the Ohio city where it was produced, the 351 Cleveland was expected to be Ford's most innovative small-block engine. Heads are identical in design to 351-2V, but have larger chambers to reduce compression, may also have air injection ports. Pair of 351 Small Blocks: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E10 LOW$-JUNKYARD 351W-BETTER THAN 5.0L?Add an Extra 100HP to a Ford Windsor - Engine Power S6, E8 302 VS . That may rule out the vintage HO 302 (boss). Like previous posters have said, it produced more power and featured many design improvements over the windsor. I am toying around with the thought of stroking one of these. The . It came with a 4-barrel carburetor and a larger cam. blocks, the distributor mount is almost flush with the top of the block . Never made in the US. On a 302 (or smaller c.i.d.) Cleveland/Modified engines have the timing chain recessed into the front of the block itself, and its timing cover is essentially just a flat piece of metal. More races have been won with 350 Chevrolet engine than with 351 Ford engine . )* The 351C (Cleveland) valve covers are attached with 8 bolts, flat Timing Chain. Ford 351 Cleveland vs. 351/400 Modified. Different harmonic balancer and flexplate than 351C. heads a set of header's or 4v aghaust manifolds and a cam with 225 intake 235 aghaust duration @.050 and there's your 400hp and no clevelands are not big blocks although they are called that a. Windsor will scream like an 18 year old girl. 2 bolts: 239/256/272/292/312 (produced from 1954 to 1964) . Kilométrage. Both the Ford 351 and the Chevrolet 350 are excellent engines. The low-performance 400 was designed for torque . Mar 2, 2020 The only difference that I'm aware of is for 1967 where, if I recall correctly, Windsor was ahead of Cleveland, measured in months, for the next change level which changed the thermactor air distribution from external air logs to internal passages. The 351C was replaced by the 351M in 1975. The. May 7, 2014. 157 054 km Boîte de vitesse. Ford Windsor crankshaft location of the crank gear is about .005″ smaller than the Cleveland. The 351M was essentially a destroked version of the 400 c.i.d . Part 2 of HorsePower's dual Ford 351 project, as the guys complete the build of a Cleveland engine and then turn their attention to the Windsor engine. The Cleveland parts are more expensive and harder to come by. 26 800 € - Assurance. The cleveland was made to be a 351. 1970 Cougar, 3660 lbs 418W, C6, 3.50 posi, slicks & street trim The best 302 is the windsor as i was made to be a 302. http://bit.ly/2K6MISq It's Ford vs. Chevy on this preview of Engine Masters Ep. Buy COMP Cams 8931-2 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifter for Small Block Ford 289-302/351 Windsor Non-Roller Engines - Pair: . Enter the 351 Windsor. D. D K. The pointer is also showing the band that is .005″ larger. Apr 30, 2008. Prix TTC d' occasion. . Share. Thick and it plugs into a 115-Volt, 20 Amp outlet. Essence. The "Cleveland" and "Modified" engines are all part of the "335 Series" engine family. The Windsor and the Cleveland both use a small block bellhousing pattern. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 20 of 27 Posts . The Cleveland title was given due to its manufacturing location of Cleveland, Ohio. A Windsor 427 usually has a very long stroke (greater than 4.1") which. In Australia, the 302 is from the Cleveland family! The Mustang first offered a 351-cubic-inch small-block V-8 in 1969. 9 posts Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland.